Observer Effect was Trek?

Arik · 01-25-2005, 01:48 AM

Did I miss that lesson in 'What is Trek 101'? Yeah, the end boiled down to this notion that compassion is an important aspect of humanity, but:

a) The preceeding 48 minutes were dull. I had to check after fifteen minutes because I thought the episode was almost over. Trek is dull at its worst, not at its best.

b) The dialog was shitty. The one guy had done this for over eight hundred years, and he hadn't developed a way to talk to subjects that didn't make him look stupid?

c) The reference to Star Trek was shoehorned in. Who really gives a rat's ass if these are Organians from Kirk's time?

d) It boiled down to Archer preaching human values to another alien race. It's not a show about humanity if your example of humanity has to tell everyone what humanity is all about. Star Trek has used characters to tell stories with humanistic themes. They preach to us. Enterprise preaches to characters (hence my sig on Trekweb). And that's something that the writers are going to have to address if they really want to get better.

e) In over 10,000 years, humanity is the only race that shows compassion? Is that really unique to us?

All in all, from what I've seen this season, it hasn't moved much from the first couple of seasons. It's still dull and uninteresting. They still haven't figured out nuance, or forshadowing. Or drama, for that matter.

Bean · 01-25-2005, 02:08 AM

Although Bakula's acting in sickbay when he's talking to the Organians right after Trip dies was spot on for a few moments. I actually thought he was going to cry. It didn't seem like such a carboard performance as he's done in every episode of the series IMO. Other than that, I agree with you. They wasted the Organians in such a trivial way.

Brikar · 01-25-2005, 02:45 AM

I didn't find it dull at all. It was one of the first times that I wasn't bored when Reed and Mayweather had something to do. Reed didn't try to martyr himself for once.

I didn't have a problem with Archer preaching, either. Every captain has preached humanity's virtues to other species. I don't know why you think it's a problem when Archer does it. There have been times when Sisko or Picard gave impassioned speeches and whatnot to other humans.

I don't think it's that silly that Archer is the first one to sacrifice himself to save his crew. We're supposed to be seeing the beginnings of a humanity with "more evolved sensibility". The whole idea is that these humans kind of are supposed to be better than everyone else. Excepting DS9, we rarely saw human flaws, since Roddenberry wanted to have perfect humans of the future, and I think with Manny Coto and the Reeves-Stevenses supposedly being such huge TOS fans, I think that might be the way they're trying to steer these episodes.

Even the Borg admitted that humans were special.

Arik · 01-25-2005, 11:42 AM

Reed didn't martyr himself...because he wasn't ever on the screen. It was always his Organian controlling his body.

Picard and Sisko preached to other humans. They didn't look for alien species so that they could tell the aliens why humanity is so much better. If they did, the episodes aren't jumping out at me. Must not have had much impact...

I didn't say it was silly that Archer sacrificed himself. I said it was silly that in ten thousand years, humanity is the only species that showed compassion. Besides that, we have here another episode where Archer's "best friend" is dying, and we don't get any reaction from him.

Brikar · 01-25-2005, 12:19 PM

I don't know what you mean by "we don't get any reaction from him". He looked (and sounded) on the verge of tears for much of that scene. It's one of the few times Archer hasn't seemed constipated when he's supposed to be emotional.

Argh, it's frustrating because I LIKE Scott Bakula. I think he's got a really cool voice, and he was really good on "Quantum Leap". I have NO idea what happened to him when he came to "Enterprise". Watching interviews and whatnot, he's so loose and friendly and warm, and then on the show he's stiff as a board.

Cymro · 01-25-2005, 01:04 PM

The whole humanity-evolution-omnipitence thing has been sorely missing in Trek since TNG, I loved all that stuff with the Q thinking we have the potential to evolve even further than them. One of the things that I found dissapointing about DS9 was that it often had more to do with Bajor than humanity.

I think Stargate is beginning to have more in common with Rodenberry's "vision" than the last three Star Trek series have, what with all the stuff with the ainctients and ascention etc.

Stag · 01-25-2005, 04:13 PM

I like cake

Brikar · 01-25-2005, 06:29 PM

me too.

Bean · 01-25-2005, 09:16 PM

I think you're right Cymro, that is an aspect to the show that has sometimes been beaten to death with a stick, but in this series is definitely lacking. Although I have seen many instances where they've at least "approached" the subject. Humans are supposed to be special. I know that sounds like I'm putting an egotistical spin on Trek, but let's face it, that's what it's about. Humans that manage to become perfect in the end.

I think that Q was the best method thusfar of demonstrating that. They came right out and said it on screen. I mean come on, with all of the "destroy humanity, and destroy the federation" stuff thrown out over the years, it's hard to argue that humans in the Trek universe aren't pivotal to galactic events.

Even the Borg knew that, thus their attack on Earth instead of just washing over the Federation a planet at a time from one side tothe other. They worked on that premise in Nemesis, hell, the founding of the Federation wouldn't have been possible witout humans. I think that the concept for Observer effect was great. and was a direct reference to this idea. I just think that the execution left something to be desired, with the exception of the aforementioned scene in sickbay which is to date IMHO Bakulas BEST performance in Trek.

Cymro · 01-25-2005, 10:22 PM

I have been, and always shall be, right.

01-25-2005, 01:48 AM	#1 (permalink)
Arik Astro-Monkey Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Here, dumbfuck! Posts: 2,304	Observer Effect was Trek? Did I miss that lesson in 'What is Trek 101'? Yeah, the end boiled down to this notion that compassion is an important aspect of humanity, but: a) The preceeding 48 minutes were dull. I had to check after fifteen minutes because I thought the episode was almost over. Trek is dull at its worst, not at its best. b) The dialog was shitty. The one guy had done this for over eight hundred years, and he hadn't developed a way to talk to subjects that didn't make him look stupid? c) The reference to Star Trek was shoehorned in. Who really gives a rat's ass if these are Organians from Kirk's time? d) It boiled down to Archer preaching human values to another alien race. It's not a show about humanity if your example of humanity has to tell everyone what humanity is all about. Star Trek has used characters to tell stories with humanistic themes. They preach to us. Enterprise preaches to characters (hence my sig on Trekweb). And that's something that the writers are going to have to address if they really want to get better. e) In over 10,000 years, humanity is the only race that shows compassion? Is that really unique to us? All in all, from what I've seen this season, it hasn't moved much from the first couple of seasons. It's still dull and uninteresting. They still haven't figured out nuance, or forshadowing. Or drama, for that matter. __________________ The writers of this post apologize for you being too stupid to understand it.

01-25-2005, 02:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
Bean The Awesome One Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: Canada eh! Posts: 5,055	Although Bakula's acting in sickbay when he's talking to the Organians right after Trip dies was spot on for a few moments. I actually thought he was going to cry. It didn't seem like such a carboard performance as he's done in every episode of the series IMO. Other than that, I agree with you. They wasted the Organians in such a trivial way. __________________ "I haven't faced death. I've cheated death. I've tricked my way out of death and patted myself on the back for my ingenuity. I know nothing." --James T. Kirk

01-25-2005, 02:45 AM	#3 (permalink)
Brikar The Dude Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 3,606	I didn't find it dull at all. It was one of the first times that I wasn't bored when Reed and Mayweather had something to do. Reed didn't try to martyr himself for once. I didn't have a problem with Archer preaching, either. Every captain has preached humanity's virtues to other species. I don't know why you think it's a problem when Archer does it. There have been times when Sisko or Picard gave impassioned speeches and whatnot to other humans. I don't think it's that silly that Archer is the first one to sacrifice himself to save his crew. We're supposed to be seeing the beginnings of a humanity with "more evolved sensibility". The whole idea is that these humans kind of are supposed to be better than everyone else. Excepting DS9, we rarely saw human flaws, since Roddenberry wanted to have perfect humans of the future, and I think with Manny Coto and the Reeves-Stevenses supposedly being such huge TOS fans, I think that might be the way they're trying to steer these episodes. Even the Borg admitted that humans were special. __________________ "A million monkeys typing until the end of time will produce the complete works of William Shakespeare. Ten thousand monkeys typing for ten thousand years will write a Hemingway. Ten monkeys typing over Columbus Day weekend will give you a Dan Brown." http://olympusmans.blogspot.com http://benforrealz.blogspot.com

01-25-2005, 11:42 AM	#4 (permalink)
Arik Astro-Monkey Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Here, dumbfuck! Posts: 2,304	Reed didn't martyr himself...because he wasn't ever on the screen. It was always his Organian controlling his body. Picard and Sisko preached to other humans. They didn't look for alien species so that they could tell the aliens why humanity is so much better. If they did, the episodes aren't jumping out at me. Must not have had much impact... I didn't say it was silly that Archer sacrificed himself. I said it was silly that in ten thousand years, humanity is the only species that showed compassion. Besides that, we have here another episode where Archer's "best friend" is dying, and we don't get any reaction from him. __________________ The writers of this post apologize for you being too stupid to understand it.

01-25-2005, 12:19 PM	#5 (permalink)
Brikar The Dude Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 3,606	I don't know what you mean by "we don't get any reaction from him". He looked (and sounded) on the verge of tears for much of that scene. It's one of the few times Archer hasn't seemed constipated when he's supposed to be emotional. Argh, it's frustrating because I LIKE Scott Bakula. I think he's got a really cool voice, and he was really good on "Quantum Leap". I have NO idea what happened to him when he came to "Enterprise". Watching interviews and whatnot, he's so loose and friendly and warm, and then on the show he's stiff as a board. __________________ "A million monkeys typing until the end of time will produce the complete works of William Shakespeare. Ten thousand monkeys typing for ten thousand years will write a Hemingway. Ten monkeys typing over Columbus Day weekend will give you a Dan Brown." http://olympusmans.blogspot.com http://benforrealz.blogspot.com

01-25-2005, 01:04 PM	#6 (permalink)
Cymro Religious Fanatic Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Shitsville, CF63 Posts: 4,921	The whole humanity-evolution-omnipitence thing has been sorely missing in Trek since TNG, I loved all that stuff with the Q thinking we have the potential to evolve even further than them. One of the things that I found dissapointing about DS9 was that it often had more to do with Bajor than humanity. I think Stargate is beginning to have more in common with Rodenberry's "vision" than the last three Star Trek series have, what with all the stuff with the ainctients and ascention etc. __________________ "Let me tell you something about humans, nephew: They're a wonderful, friendly people - as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. "But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those friendly, intelligent, wonderful people...will become as nasty and as violent as the most blood-thirsty klingon."

01-25-2005, 04:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
Stag It's me again Join Date: Jan 1970 Location: Florida Posts: 3,286	I like cake __________________ "I want to do a motorboat on Shatner's manboobs" - Sam Cogley

01-25-2005, 06:29 PM	#8 (permalink)
Brikar The Dude Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 3,606	me too. __________________ "A million monkeys typing until the end of time will produce the complete works of William Shakespeare. Ten thousand monkeys typing for ten thousand years will write a Hemingway. Ten monkeys typing over Columbus Day weekend will give you a Dan Brown." http://olympusmans.blogspot.com http://benforrealz.blogspot.com

01-25-2005, 09:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
Bean The Awesome One Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: Canada eh! Posts: 5,055	I think you're right Cymro, that is an aspect to the show that has sometimes been beaten to death with a stick, but in this series is definitely lacking. Although I have seen many instances where they've at least "approached" the subject. Humans are supposed to be special. I know that sounds like I'm putting an egotistical spin on Trek, but let's face it, that's what it's about. Humans that manage to become perfect in the end. I think that Q was the best method thusfar of demonstrating that. They came right out and said it on screen. I mean come on, with all of the "destroy humanity, and destroy the federation" stuff thrown out over the years, it's hard to argue that humans in the Trek universe aren't pivotal to galactic events. Even the Borg knew that, thus their attack on Earth instead of just washing over the Federation a planet at a time from one side tothe other. They worked on that premise in Nemesis, hell, the founding of the Federation wouldn't have been possible witout humans. I think that the concept for Observer effect was great. and was a direct reference to this idea. I just think that the execution left something to be desired, with the exception of the aforementioned scene in sickbay which is to date IMHO Bakulas BEST performance in Trek. __________________ "I haven't faced death. I've cheated death. I've tricked my way out of death and patted myself on the back for my ingenuity. I know nothing." --James T. Kirk

01-25-2005, 10:22 PM	#10 (permalink)
Cymro Religious Fanatic Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Shitsville, CF63 Posts: 4,921	I have been, and always shall be, right. __________________ "Let me tell you something about humans, nephew: They're a wonderful, friendly people - as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. "But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those friendly, intelligent, wonderful people...will become as nasty and as violent as the most blood-thirsty klingon."

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