T'Pol's uni and the cooties brigade

NortheastOfMostOfYa · 08-17-2003, 02:07 AM

Alright, I admit it, I had to be one of the posters at TW to weigh in on the new costume T'Pol's got for next season. It's really a silly thing to generate so much talk, when there are weightier factors such as characterization and script quality to consider, but I just couldn't resist. But what amazes me is the guys (I presume) that are so incensed that she's wearing a uniform that to me is not really any more outrageous than the unis the women wore in TOS, not to mention some of the guest wenches um I mean characters... I mean, Jolene's breasts aren't hanging out for all of us to see after all (anyone remember the costumes in Quark's bar where you could actually see the bottom of the ladies' breasts?). I know part of it is that they're making a big deal about breasts rather than plots and scriptwriting but part of it just seems to have this "ewww, cooties!" vibe going. Or maybe it's just me.

I actually like the new look, it reminds me of the TOS women's unis only with skin tight pants replacing the miniskirts...

On another note, I just finished season 2 of DS9 and started season 3, and I realize now that both ENT and DS9 suddenly ratchet up the action and peril at that point. Maybe they're trying to do the same thing on ENT they did on DS9, though I'm still waiting to see if they do it with decent scripts. DS9 to me was much better after 2 years than ENT is. Maybe they'll add Worf in season 4 too :wink: (hey anything is possible in Star Trek).

Deslok · 08-17-2003, 12:55 PM

Well, it's a bandwagon sort of thing. That uniform is probably the best thing to happen to ENT next to some acting lessons for Jolene. See, originally, the argument was that she's wearing something that's not recognizably Vulcan. Steve Krutzler said that her uni looked like patio carpet, and he's so right. Now, we've had two years of T'Pol and her plastic boobies poking everybody in the eyes, I'm used to it. It's not that they're unpleasant to look at, it's just that it's such a transparent attempt to draw in the testosterone crowd.

I welcome the new look mainly because it adds some much needed color to the show. That new uniform is definitely a precursor to TOS uniforms, there's no doubt that that is the intention. For the sake of continuity, I accept it. I wish the pants were darker though, it's still a catsuit, but now there's a wide belt. (heh heh... now we're fashion critics :roll: ) I've come to accept that there's a slutty Vulcan female onboard a starship. It's just too bad that Archer isn't getting any, but he can snuggle with his dog for now.

The people who are speaking out against this new uniform are completely missing the point.

There have always been sexy women revealing a lot of skin on Star Trek.

The uniforms on TOS have to have a starting point of reference. This is as good a place as any to start.

This factor highlights the idea that the Vulcans and the humans have influenced each other through the course of their relationship, the TOS uniform design would appear to be of Vulcan origin to some degree, something that I had never wondered about, but would agree that it fits.

I would say that the people who don't like the new costume are gay, but even gay men appreciate the female form. The bottom line is that the protesters are a bunch of dweebs who have NEVER gotten laid and have their own issues to deal with. T'Pol's new look will make for a great action figure.

The rest of the crew should get something similar before the show ends, although their uniforms shouldn't be skin tight. I think this is where the black pants and boots come in. Those jumpsuits are stupid, and I honestly don't think that NASA will be using them for anything more than re-entry into a planet's atmosphere. Most of the time on shuttle missions, the astronauts are wearing Polo shirts and shorts, or whatever's comfortable. The look on TOS was meant to convey a casual uniform. Crew and guests alike could relax amidst the cheerful colors of the crew. As it stands right now, they might as well be filming ENTERPRISE in black and white, except for the red and blue on the nacelles and the instrument panels, everything is washed in a sea of blues and greys.

One person said that ENTERPRISE should not be moving in the direction of TOS. I think that was the most misinformed statement made by anyone on the board in a long time. This is a prequel, they should be connecting continuity where appropriate whenever possible.

Any viewers that ENT may lose as a result of this kind of forward thinking will be no loss. If the stories are good and they continue to connect ENT to TOS, I believe that the disheartened fans will return. Those who don't understand STAR TREK won't be missed.

Space Goat · 08-17-2003, 01:15 PM

I don't think people would be complaining as much if the change weren't touted as a selling point. The selling points are supposed to be writing, production, and acting, dammit. The alteration of a character's costume shouldn't be a reason to watch.

Notice that few people complained about Kira's new catsuit in DS9 season four. This was because it was incidental; the focus was on the writing. DS9's producers weren't saying, "Watch our show because it has hot ladies with big boobies."

The same applies to TOS. Gene Roddenberry didn't try to sell his show as "the orgy train to the stars." His characters looked sexy, but that wasn't why people watched TOS.

And it shouldn't be why people watch ENT.

Deslok · 08-17-2003, 02:14 PM

You make excellent points Jay. It's clear that B&B don't know exactly what they're doing. They're trying, if only for fear of their jobs, but at least they're trying.

The bottom line for me is that I was getting bored looking at the same two colors on the show every week while waiting for the stories to improve. If they can kick up the colors a bit and give us better stories, I'm all for it.

But it is most illogical to judge something based on minimal evidence, as I've been told on TrekWeb on more than one occassion. It's still the story concepts that count the most. I don't believe that all of the possibilities have been exhausted, just the writers. They're tired and very shortsighted. The Delphic Expanse arc holds the most promise for breathing life into this drowning rat of a show. Is this a case of the emperor's new clothes or is there a general re-imagining of the re-imagining of TREK?

Arik · 08-17-2003, 02:26 PM

Quote:

I would say that the people who don't like the new costume are gay, but even gay men appreciate the female form. The bottom line is that the protesters are a bunch of dweebs who have NEVER gotten laid and have their own issues to deal with.

And I would say something about people who make unsubstanciated generalizations, but then I'd have to ban myself. :x

If they would have just changed the uniform, that'd be one thing. But they changed the uniform and touted it as 'one of the great big changes' that Enterprise is going through. :roll:

Star Trek does have a history of putting people in skin-tight uniforms. Of course, those people are important and well developed characters and/or serve a purpose in the story. T'Pol doesn't do any of these things, and is just there for the "eye candy". The one exception is T'Pol's precursor, Seven of Nine, who was slightly less usless than T'Pol.

When they do something substantive, like giving Jolene a character to play, or actually doing something original, then I'll be happy. But not before.

Deslok · 08-17-2003, 02:50 PM

It would be nice if they gave T'Pol Vulcan eyebrows... unless she's not really Vulcan of course. But in the end, it's just probably more sloppiness on B&B's part.

It is sad that T'Pol's costume is taking priority over any news of better writing. But it's all about ratings, B&B aren't really interested in doing Star Trek anymore, and it shows.

NortheastOfMostOfYa · 08-18-2003, 02:20 PM

On the other hand, UPN Pres. Dawn Ostroff's "sex it up" comments show that either a) the ENT producers are telling her what she wants to hear or B) she's telling the reporters what the reporters want/expect to hear or c) that T'Pol will be experimenting with the emotion "lust" a lot this year, and to hell with good writing.

I can't wait for the episode where T'Pol's sister T'Blowme, played by Jenna Jameson, shows up. Now that one's got the kind of potential UPN's looking for :wink:

Ultimately we'll just have to wait and see what they come up with.

08-17-2003, 02:07 AM	#1 (permalink)
NortheastOfMostOfYa Senior Member Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: New Hamster Posts: 162	Alright, I admit it, I had to be one of the posters at TW to weigh in on the new costume T'Pol's got for next season. It's really a silly thing to generate so much talk, when there are weightier factors such as characterization and script quality to consider, but I just couldn't resist. But what amazes me is the guys (I presume) that are so incensed that she's wearing a uniform that to me is not really any more outrageous than the unis the women wore in TOS, not to mention some of the guest wenches um I mean characters... I mean, Jolene's breasts aren't hanging out for all of us to see after all (anyone remember the costumes in Quark's bar where you could actually see the bottom of the ladies' breasts?). I know part of it is that they're making a big deal about breasts rather than plots and scriptwriting but part of it just seems to have this "ewww, cooties!" vibe going. Or maybe it's just me. I actually like the new look, it reminds me of the TOS women's unis only with skin tight pants replacing the miniskirts... On another note, I just finished season 2 of DS9 and started season 3, and I realize now that both ENT and DS9 suddenly ratchet up the action and peril at that point. Maybe they're trying to do the same thing on ENT they did on DS9, though I'm still waiting to see if they do it with decent scripts. DS9 to me was much better after 2 years than ENT is. Maybe they'll add Worf in season 4 too :wink: (hey anything is possible in Star Trek). __________________ From the state where death is mentioned on its license plate "Everybody Wang Chung tonight!"

08-17-2003, 12:55 PM	#2 (permalink)
Deslok regruntled and reemployed Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: in front of the computer Posts: 1,221	Well, it's a bandwagon sort of thing. That uniform is probably the best thing to happen to ENT next to some acting lessons for Jolene. See, originally, the argument was that she's wearing something that's not recognizably Vulcan. Steve Krutzler said that her uni looked like patio carpet, and he's so right. Now, we've had two years of T'Pol and her plastic boobies poking everybody in the eyes, I'm used to it. It's not that they're unpleasant to look at, it's just that it's such a transparent attempt to draw in the testosterone crowd. I welcome the new look mainly because it adds some much needed color to the show. That new uniform is definitely a precursor to TOS uniforms, there's no doubt that that is the intention. For the sake of continuity, I accept it. I wish the pants were darker though, it's still a catsuit, but now there's a wide belt. (heh heh... now we're fashion critics :roll: ) I've come to accept that there's a slutty Vulcan female onboard a starship. It's just too bad that Archer isn't getting any, but he can snuggle with his dog for now. The people who are speaking out against this new uniform are completely missing the point. There have always been sexy women revealing a lot of skin on Star Trek. The uniforms on TOS have to have a starting point of reference. This is as good a place as any to start. This factor highlights the idea that the Vulcans and the humans have influenced each other through the course of their relationship, the TOS uniform design would appear to be of Vulcan origin to some degree, something that I had never wondered about, but would agree that it fits. I would say that the people who don't like the new costume are gay, but even gay men appreciate the female form. The bottom line is that the protesters are a bunch of dweebs who have NEVER gotten laid and have their own issues to deal with. T'Pol's new look will make for a great action figure. The rest of the crew should get something similar before the show ends, although their uniforms shouldn't be skin tight. I think this is where the black pants and boots come in. Those jumpsuits are stupid, and I honestly don't think that NASA will be using them for anything more than re-entry into a planet's atmosphere. Most of the time on shuttle missions, the astronauts are wearing Polo shirts and shorts, or whatever's comfortable. The look on TOS was meant to convey a casual uniform. Crew and guests alike could relax amidst the cheerful colors of the crew. As it stands right now, they might as well be filming ENTERPRISE in black and white, except for the red and blue on the nacelles and the instrument panels, everything is washed in a sea of blues and greys. One person said that ENTERPRISE should not be moving in the direction of TOS. I think that was the most misinformed statement made by anyone on the board in a long time. This is a prequel, they should be connecting continuity where appropriate whenever possible. Any viewers that ENT may lose as a result of this kind of forward thinking will be no loss. If the stories are good and they continue to connect ENT to TOS, I believe that the disheartened fans will return. Those who don't understand STAR TREK won't be missed. __________________

08-17-2003, 01:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
Space Goat "It's a faaaake!" Join Date: Jan 1970 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 432	I don't think people would be complaining as much if the change weren't touted as a selling point. The selling points are supposed to be writing, production, and acting, dammit. The alteration of a character's costume shouldn't be a reason to watch. Notice that few people complained about Kira's new catsuit in DS9 season four. This was because it was incidental; the focus was on the writing. DS9's producers weren't saying, "Watch our show because it has hot ladies with big boobies." The same applies to TOS. Gene Roddenberry didn't try to sell his show as "the orgy train to the stars." His characters looked sexy, but that wasn't why people watched TOS. And it shouldn't be why people watch ENT. __________________ "People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." -V for Vendetta "Don't tell me what I can't do!" -John Locke, Lost Visit me on the web: Hypersyllogistic \| Flickr \| Twitter

08-17-2003, 02:14 PM	#4 (permalink)
Deslok regruntled and reemployed Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: in front of the computer Posts: 1,221	You make excellent points Jay. It's clear that B&B don't know exactly what they're doing. They're trying, if only for fear of their jobs, but at least they're trying. The bottom line for me is that I was getting bored looking at the same two colors on the show every week while waiting for the stories to improve. If they can kick up the colors a bit and give us better stories, I'm all for it. But it is most illogical to judge something based on minimal evidence, as I've been told on TrekWeb on more than one occassion. It's still the story concepts that count the most. I don't believe that all of the possibilities have been exhausted, just the writers. They're tired and very shortsighted. The Delphic Expanse arc holds the most promise for breathing life into this drowning rat of a show. Is this a case of the emperor's new clothes or is there a general re-imagining of the re-imagining of TREK? __________________

08-17-2003, 02:50 PM	#6 (permalink)
Deslok regruntled and reemployed Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: in front of the computer Posts: 1,221	It would be nice if they gave T'Pol Vulcan eyebrows... unless she's not really Vulcan of course. But in the end, it's just probably more sloppiness on B&B's part. It is sad that T'Pol's costume is taking priority over any news of better writing. But it's all about ratings, B&B aren't really interested in doing Star Trek anymore, and it shows. __________________

08-18-2003, 02:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
NortheastOfMostOfYa Senior Member Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: New Hamster Posts: 162	On the other hand, UPN Pres. Dawn Ostroff's "sex it up" comments show that either a) the ENT producers are telling her what she wants to hear or B) she's telling the reporters what the reporters want/expect to hear or c) that T'Pol will be experimenting with the emotion "lust" a lot this year, and to hell with good writing. I can't wait for the episode where T'Pol's sister T'Blowme, played by Jenna Jameson, shows up. Now that one's got the kind of potential UPN's looking for :wink: Ultimately we'll just have to wait and see what they come up with. __________________ From the state where death is mentioned on its license plate "Everybody Wang Chung tonight!"

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